And Stay Off!! What's the Worst Traction Control System?

"POD" (podimus) 11/23/2013 at 15:37 • Filed to: None

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We've had a nice dump of snow here, and today it just started warming up. So that means ice at all the intersections, soft slushy shoulders, and piles of ice/snow/slush/rocks/salt in between the lanes. This has been a nightmare for BMO's traction control system. I'm starting to think that it was designed by the French. The moment it meets the slightest bit of resistance (or slippage in this case), it gives up. It packs it in and just goes home.

I can't, in recent memory, think of a traction control system this bad. It doesn't tapper off the power, it just cuts out. Totally. It's like it doesn't want you to have any wheel spin at all. One second you are accelerating, the next, the car just shuts down.

I find it more dangerous to have it on.

The aggravating part is that the MS3 is rather predictable in adverse conditions. It almost always dives to the passenger side with wheel spin and you can counter for it easily. Fortunately Mazda give you a button to turn the whole mess off, so, I've got that going for me, which is nice.

So I ask you Oppo, what is the worst T/C you've had the displeasure of being subjected to?

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:40

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Apparently, the Acura Legend never needed TCS as I never had issues in any sketchy situations. Snow included.

When it was on, 75% of power went missing - 24/7. Why?

POD > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/23/2013 at 15:42

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That is just weird. So it cut the power by 1/4 anytime it was on?

getchapopcorn > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:42

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One you can't completely turn off.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:43

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None, I think I've never had/driven a car with Traction Control...

POD > getchapopcorn 11/23/2013 at 15:44

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Can't argue with that. Any cars that you've driven that have the option to completely turn the T/C off on and are just abysmal with them on (don't say all of them, that's the easy answer)?

xxstich666xx > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:44

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FR-S. Here's what you have to do to turn it off.....

1) warm up the engine fully.
2) turn off the engine.
3) the handbrake needs to be released.
4) press and hold the brake and start the engine.
5) while holding the brake, pull the handbrake and let go of the brake.
6) press the brake 2 or more times and hold the brake.
7) while holding the brake, release and pull the handbrake 2 or more times and hold the handbrake.
8) while holding the handbrake, press the brake 2 times.
9) TC and VSC lights should turn on.

If you can't turn the TC and VSC back on by pressing the buttons, then it worked. You'll need to turn off the engine to turn TC and VSC back on.

dogisbadob > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/23/2013 at 15:44

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I didn't know they had it back then!

My 96 ES300 doesn't have TC, and it wasn't even an option. It probably isn't needed, though.

So yeah, I'd call mine the worst—because I simply don't have one! :p

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:44

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Yep. I don't know if it's the same for other Legends but yeesh.

POD > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 11/23/2013 at 15:44

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If I could be so lucky.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > dogisbadob 11/23/2013 at 15:45

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Nah, I'd say the ES300 is a tank. Go through snow? Bring it!

To this day, I don't know why I bought the Legend.

POD > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/23/2013 at 15:45

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Follow up question, did/does it affect fuel economy?

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:45

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Well, I am stuck in Brazil, where most cars hailed from designs dated to 1980 up until a couple years ago, so there's that as well. :p

Casper > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:46

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Every time I get into the wife's car I am having to turn the traction control "off" (as off as it can be). I have yet to drive a car with a good system that didn't cost $60,000+.

His Stigness > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:46

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The traction control on my 2000 Mercedes C230 Kompressor is pretty bad. It doesn't allow any wheel spin whatsoever and cuts the power, and then takes FOREVER to turn it back on. The only reason I keep it on is because when it's off the car tends to swap ends. And I also hate it because it's a Mercedes system and they're never truly off; they just stay on enough to ruin your brakes.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:46

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I say about slightly - mind you, this was the Type-II model. Either way, it was drinking fuel.

But yeah, I did notice a difference with it on.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:47

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I say about slightly - mind you, this was the Type-II model. Either way, it was drinking fuel.

But yeah, I did notice a difference with it on.

m2m, apex detective > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:47

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'Sup.

This is of course an inappropriate and mean generalization, but generally speaking, every TRC/TCS/ESP you can't turn off completely when it states something like "ESP off" (sometimes there's no dedicated TC, right?) and already displays an icon warning you of the inherent dangers. Why? You expect the car to handle like a car normally does, that's why; so when stuff happens and the ESP still kicks in, it can surprise you in a bad way.

POD > xxstich666xx 11/23/2013 at 15:48

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That is ritardulas (both ridicules and retarded). So if you live in a cold climate you have to let your car sit for 10-15 minutes idling before you leave just so you can turn it back off to turn off the T/C.... What's worse, you have to complete some T/C off kata with the hand brake.

POD > m2m, apex detective 11/23/2013 at 15:49

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Agreed. VW is very bad for this.

m2m, apex detective > getchapopcorn 11/23/2013 at 15:50

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Yup, this. Worse still if it says that it's "off" when it's actually just waiting for a reason to overrule your puny decisionmaking.

POD > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 11/23/2013 at 15:50

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You've probably got a lot of well maintained cars from the 70's though, so that's got to be a bonus!

m2m, apex detective > xxstich666xx 11/23/2013 at 15:51

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Any idea if this is U.S.-specific or global (read: valid for GT-86/BRZ, too)?

POD > His Stigness 11/23/2013 at 15:51

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So even when off it'll still try to use the ABS to correct slides and loss of traction?

getchapopcorn > m2m, apex detective 11/23/2013 at 15:54

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That's really what I was getting at.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:56

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Nope, most just rotted away after years of poor maintenance and care. And we didn't have any cool cars in the 70's to begin with, since imports were banned during the military dictatorship. We had a buttload of Fuscas and Kombis, and Opalas and Chevettes in fair amounts, along with Ford's Corcel and the occasional Dodge Dart 318 and Ford Maverick 302, which were expensive as balls and no one could afford feeding them during the fuel crisis.

Nowadays, the few survivors from that era go for 80 thousand reais in good shape, and 20 thousand in junkyard shape. I once tried to talk down the price of a 72 Dart, the owner wanted 19 grand and the car didn't even have doors. Or a fuel tank. So, nope, no cool old cars either.

His Stigness > POD 11/23/2013 at 15:58

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Yup, but it doesn't do it enough to actually work, it only does it enough to wear out the brakes over time.

POD > His Stigness 11/23/2013 at 16:01

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Awesome. That sounds like a great T/C system....

Are you in inclement weather enough to warrant snow tires?

revrseat70 > POD 11/23/2013 at 16:04

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Hahaha that Sonic commercial where they are making up words by combining them came on while I read the first part of your statement. Sorry. Felt the need to share that

PS9 > POD 11/23/2013 at 16:05

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/TROLOLOLOLO

Tony Montana > POD 11/23/2013 at 16:47

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Previous gen Ford Escape. To its credit, it does a -decent- job when you didn't intend to let the car loose a bit, but if you kick out the back a bit in the parking lot and then correct, it will actively try to snap your neck.

wacopalypsenow > POD 11/23/2013 at 17:27

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Yes! It is never fucking truly off on mine. Pull the ABS module plug to bypass, and the damn thing throws an error resulting in cutting engine torque to %40 on my E430.

HammerheadFistpunch > POD 11/23/2013 at 17:48

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Pretty much. There are exceptions but yeah.

Skif6996 > POD 11/23/2013 at 18:57

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07 Charger V6 rental car. Almost killed me as i tried to make a left turn against oncoming traffic. I punched it to shoot across and about halfway through the turn the TC completely cut the throttle. The car died while sitting sideways across two lanes of highway. I had to lift off the throttle and then hit it again before I could get any power. Needless to say, i made sure to turn the TC off for the rest of the weekend.

Saracen > m2m, apex detective 11/23/2013 at 19:26

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With some VAGCOM coding, Golf R ESC is completely defeatable (enables two stage ESC that is unlocked in Europe). I'm pretty sure it can done for other VW models as well.

Simplify, then add beer > xxstich666xx 11/23/2013 at 20:21

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I just tried to replicate that at my desk (shut up, I'm hungover). I suppose if you can follow that many steps withing stuffing it up, you're good to drive with no TCS.

Simplify, then add beer > PS9 11/23/2013 at 20:21

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That would be the best, not the worst.

Simplify, then add beer > POD 11/23/2013 at 20:24

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Any Hyundai first generation TCS. You'd slide it around the corner, straighten it up, get all wheels back to full traction and THEN it would cut power. The on board computer must have been a second hand calculator from the 60s.

POD > Simplify, then add beer 11/23/2013 at 20:28

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http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/tuscon-awd-a-w…

Reigntastic > POD 11/23/2013 at 21:36

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Yeah, I don't have TC at all.

m2m, apex detective > Saracen 11/24/2013 at 10:03

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I don't have any doubt that's something you can do ... but try to get through with that and keeping insurance, TÜV (et al) and warranty intact.

If it didn't say "off", I'd not even deem it so bad; this way, though, it's just unhonest.

Saracen > m2m, apex detective 11/25/2013 at 12:41

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I have not heard of anybody having their warranty denied because they enabled two-stage ESC. It's also against the law to just void your warranty for a modification; they must prove that it caused the problem with your car for which you are bringing the car in for warranty work.

As for the insurance, well, they don't have to know =P

And I think you mean 'dishonest'.

Tim Tom > POD 11/27/2013 at 05:14

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Basically any traction system that you can turn off only temporarily, because you never know when it will kick in. Because if the system decides to kick in in middle of a controlled drift and you don't expect it it could cause a dangerous situation. In 2005 E90 BMW 330d I was able to turn of DSC (or is it DTC? I can naver tell) completely. In the LCI model it was not possible (but the older one was from different country, and the settings can differ for different markets), only temporarily, which was the worst. And I really hate ESP in Peugeot, at least I hated in 407. But there it was able to shut it for good.

POD > Tim Tom 11/27/2013 at 08:38

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Agreed. I'm in a rental while my car is in the shot and it's got a T/C that is only temporarily off. Get enough wheel spin or slide and it turns back on. Very annoying and unsafe.